[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index][Main Index]

[lcdds 108] Re: [gld-eb 87] GLD baseline design : a cable spaceissue

Subject:   [lcdds 108] Re: [gld-eb 87] GLD baseline design : a cable spaceissue
From:   tohru@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date:   Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:53:59 +0900 (JST)

Dear all,
  yes, I have drawn dodecagon and 16-gon, I found
  the idea does not work no more.
  You can find them soon on my web.
  Sincerely,
     Tohru
> Dear Hitoshi,
>
> You are quite right - it simply depends on the relative depth
> of ECAL + HCAL to detector radius. It certainly works for
> a hexagon, but doesn't for a dodecagon (12-gon). A 10-gon
> might jus work depending on the exact dimensions.
>
> cheers,
>    Mark
>
> On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, yamamoto222-ee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>    The scheme given by Mark does seem to work for n-gonal shapes
>> other than octagon - it simply depends on the depth of HCAL+ECAL, it
>> seems. It can certainly be used for hexagon, but it may also be
>> possible for 10-gon.  Or am I dreaming?
>>
>>   - Hitoshi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 1:58 PM +0100 05.7.25, Mark Thomson wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I have just sketched out some VERY basic thoughts on
>> > cable space issues for the ECAL/HCAL. The main issue
>> > is where the barrel ECAL/HCAL cables go, either:
>> >   o at the end of the barrel which introduces a
>> >     (large?) gap between barrel/endcap
>> >   o at the sides of the barrel which allows one to
>> >     minimize the gap between barrel/endcap, but in its
>> >     simplest form doesn't work for 12-gon, 16-gon geometry.
>> > Some rather crude diagrams of the two options can be found
>> > in the .pdf attachment.
>> >
>> > To estimate the volume of cables at this stage is very hard
>> > indeed until we better know what is needed in terms of
>> > power supply, voltage control (a potential issue with SiPM/MPC)
>> > and readout.
>> >
>> >      cheers,
>> >                           Mark
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, Tohru-Takeshita wrote:
>> >
>> > >  Dear Mark,
>> > >    yes, you're right. It seems to have another problem to
>> > >  place electronics for ECAL. We have to re-examine this
>> > >  in case we consider the 16-gonal structure in CAL detector.
>> > >   Sincerely,
>> > >     Tohru
>> > >  On 2005/07/22, at 17:00, Mark Thomson wrote:
>> > >
>> > >  > Dear Takeshita-san et al.,
>> > >  >
>> > >  > I think this is an interesting question...
>> > >  >
>> > >  > Clearly a 12/16-gon geometry has the advantage of a more
>> > >  > compact use of space. However, I am not convinced that one
>> > >  > can arrive at a realistic design. For an octagonal geometry
>> > >  > it is possible to readout the barrel on the outside of the
>> > >  > detector in the way LDC envisages. Going to 12+ sides this
>> > >  > no longer works. In this case we have to readout the barrel
>> > >  > from the ends. This may be OK - but I very much doubt we can
>> > >  > get the cables out without leaving a VERY large space between
>> > >  > barrel and endcap (perhaps I'm wrong). For this reason I don't
>> > >  > think we should consider making this the baseline design
>> > >  > without addressing these space issues.
>> > >  >
>> > >  > I'll try and circulate some diagrams later to illustrate what
>> > >  > I think are the main issues (and possible solutions).
>> > >  >
>> > >  >             cheers,
>> > >  >                            Mark.
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  > On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Tohru-Takeshita wrote:
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  > > Dear Sugimoto-san and all,
>> > >  > >     I updated my GLD-CAL cut view for 12 and 16 -gonal (?)
>> structure
>> > > at
>> > >  > >  http://atlas.shinshu-u.ac.jp/jlc/GLD-design/gld-cal-design.html
>> > >  > >  Please look at them at "a whole detector view (12 or 16
>> gonal)".
>> > >  > >  Sincerely,
>> > >  > >    Tohru
>> > >  > > On 2005/07/21, at 15:40, Yasuhiro Sugimoto wrote:
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > > > Dear Takeshita-san,
>> > >  > > >
>> > >  > > >  In the slide you showed yesterday's meeting,
>> > >  > > > the number of layers in HCAL is 36 for the barrel region.
>> > >  > > > The total thickness including EMCAL and scintillators
>> > >  > > > is only 5.6 interaction lengths with this configuration.
>> > >  > > > It could be thicker if you adopt 12-sided or 16-sided
>> > >  > > > polygonal shape rather than octagonal shape
>> > >  > > > (octagon -> 5.6,    12-sided  -> 6.3).
>> > >  > > > How do you think?
>> > >  > > >
>> > >  > > > Y. Sugimoto
>> > >  > > > KEK
>> > >  > > >
>> > >  > > >
>> > >  > > >
>> > >  > > >
>> > >  > > >
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > > 竹下徹:信州大学:松本市旭3-1-1,0263-37-2898
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > >
>> > >  >
>> > >  > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> > >  > |  Dr. Mark A. Thomson                 University of Cambridge,
>>     |
>> > >  > |  E-mail: thomson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   Cavendish Laboratory,
>>     |
>> > >  > |  Phone:   44 1223 765122             (Room 951 Rutherford
>> building) |
>> > >  > |        or 44 1223 762332 (College)   Madingley Road,
>>     |
>> > >  > |  Fax:     44 1223 353920             Cambridge, CB3 0HE, U.K.
>>     |
>> > >  > |  http://www.hep.phy.cam.ac.uk/~thomson/
>>     |
>> >  > > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >
>> > >  竹下徹:信州大学:松本市旭3-1-1,0263-37-2898
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> > |  Dr. Mark A. Thomson                 University of Cambridge,
>> |
>> > |  E-mail: thomson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   Cavendish Laboratory,
>> |
>> > |  Phone:   44 1223 765122             (Room 951 Rutherford building)
>> |
>> > |        or 44 1223 762332 (College)   Madingley Road,
>> |
>> > |  Fax:     44 1223 353920             Cambridge, CB3 0HE, U.K.
>> |
>> > |  http://www.hep.phy.cam.ac.uk/~thomson/
>> |
>> > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> >
>> > Content-Type: APPLICATION/PDF; NAME="geom.pdf"
>> > Content-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0507251346220.21423@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Content-Description:
>> > Content-Disposition: ATTACHMENT; FILENAME="geom.pdf"
>> >
>> > Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:geom.pdf (PDF /CARO) (000FD3D0)
>>
>>
>>
>
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |  Dr. Mark A. Thomson                 University of Cambridge,       |
> |  E-mail: thomson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   Cavendish Laboratory,          |
> |  Phone:   44 1223 765122             (Room 951 Rutherford building) |
> |        or 44 1223 762332 (College)   Madingley Road,                |
> |  Fax:     44 1223 353920             Cambridge, CB3 0HE, U.K.       |
> |  http://www.hep.phy.cam.ac.uk/~thomson/                             |
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
>
>
>