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[lcdds 105] Re: [gld-eb 87] GLD baseline design : a cable space issue

Subject:   [lcdds 105] Re: [gld-eb 87] GLD baseline design : a cable space issue
From:   Mark Thomson <thomson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:   Mon, 1 Aug 2005 10:46:34 +0100 (BST)

Dear Hitoshi,

You are quite right - it simply depends on the relative depth
of ECAL + HCAL to detector radius. It certainly works for
a hexagon, but doesn't for a dodecagon (12-gon). A 10-gon
might jus work depending on the exact dimensions.

                        cheers,
                           Mark

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, yamamoto222-ee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
>    The scheme given by Mark does seem to work for n-gonal shapes
> other than octagon - it simply depends on the depth of HCAL+ECAL, it
> seems. It can certainly be used for hexagon, but it may also be
> possible for 10-gon.  Or am I dreaming?
> 
>   - Hitoshi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 1:58 PM +0100 05.7.25, Mark Thomson wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have just sketched out some VERY basic thoughts on
> > cable space issues for the ECAL/HCAL. The main issue
> > is where the barrel ECAL/HCAL cables go, either:
> >   o at the end of the barrel which introduces a
> >     (large?) gap between barrel/endcap
> >   o at the sides of the barrel which allows one to
> >     minimize the gap between barrel/endcap, but in its
> >     simplest form doesn't work for 12-gon, 16-gon geometry.
> > Some rather crude diagrams of the two options can be found
> > in the .pdf attachment.
> > 
> > To estimate the volume of cables at this stage is very hard
> > indeed until we better know what is needed in terms of
> > power supply, voltage control (a potential issue with SiPM/MPC)
> > and readout.
> > 
> >      cheers,
> >                           Mark
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, Tohru-Takeshita wrote:
> > 
> > >  Dear Mark,
> > >    yes, you're right. It seems to have another problem to
> > >  place electronics for ECAL. We have to re-examine this
> > >  in case we consider the 16-gonal structure in CAL detector.
> > >   Sincerely,
> > >     Tohru
> > >  On 2005/07/22, at 17:00, Mark Thomson wrote:
> > > 
> > >  > Dear Takeshita-san et al.,
> > >  >
> > >  > I think this is an interesting question...
> > >  >
> > >  > Clearly a 12/16-gon geometry has the advantage of a more
> > >  > compact use of space. However, I am not convinced that one
> > >  > can arrive at a realistic design. For an octagonal geometry
> > >  > it is possible to readout the barrel on the outside of the
> > >  > detector in the way LDC envisages. Going to 12+ sides this
> > >  > no longer works. In this case we have to readout the barrel
> > >  > from the ends. This may be OK - but I very much doubt we can
> > >  > get the cables out without leaving a VERY large space between
> > >  > barrel and endcap (perhaps I'm wrong). For this reason I don't
> > >  > think we should consider making this the baseline design
> > >  > without addressing these space issues.
> > >  >
> > >  > I'll try and circulate some diagrams later to illustrate what
> > >  > I think are the main issues (and possible solutions).
> > >  >
> > >  >             cheers,
> > >  >                            Mark.
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Tohru-Takeshita wrote:
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > > Dear Sugimoto-san and all,
> > >  > >     I updated my GLD-CAL cut view for 12 and 16 -gonal (?) structure
> > > at
> > >  > >  http://atlas.shinshu-u.ac.jp/jlc/GLD-design/gld-cal-design.html
> > >  > >  Please look at them at "a whole detector view (12 or 16 gonal)".
> > >  > >  Sincerely,
> > >  > >    Tohru
> > >  > > On 2005/07/21, at 15:40, Yasuhiro Sugimoto wrote:
> > >  > >
> > >  > >
> > >  > > > Dear Takeshita-san,
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >  In the slide you showed yesterday's meeting,
> > >  > > > the number of layers in HCAL is 36 for the barrel region.
> > >  > > > The total thickness including EMCAL and scintillators
> > >  > > > is only 5.6 interaction lengths with this configuration.
> > >  > > > It could be thicker if you adopt 12-sided or 16-sided
> > >  > > > polygonal shape rather than octagonal shape
> > >  > > > (octagon -> 5.6,    12-sided  -> 6.3).
> > >  > > > How do you think?
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > > Y. Sugimoto
> > >  > > > KEK
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >
> > >  > >
> > >  > > 竹下徹:信州大学:松本市旭3-1-1,0263-37-2898
> > >  > >
> > >  > >
> > >  > >
> > >  > >
> > >  > >
> > >  >
> > >  > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> > >  > |  Dr. Mark A. Thomson                 University of Cambridge,       |
> > >  > |  E-mail: thomson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   Cavendish Laboratory,          |
> > >  > |  Phone:   44 1223 765122             (Room 951 Rutherford building) |
> > >  > |        or 44 1223 762332 (College)   Madingley Road,                |
> > >  > |  Fax:     44 1223 353920             Cambridge, CB3 0HE, U.K.       |
> > >  > |  http://www.hep.phy.cam.ac.uk/~thomson/                             |
> >  > > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > > 
> > >  竹下徹:信州大学:松本市旭3-1-1,0263-37-2898
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> > |  Dr. Mark A. Thomson                 University of Cambridge,       |
> > |  E-mail: thomson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   Cavendish Laboratory,          |
> > |  Phone:   44 1223 765122             (Room 951 Rutherford building) |
> > |        or 44 1223 762332 (College)   Madingley Road,                |
> > |  Fax:     44 1223 353920             Cambridge, CB3 0HE, U.K.       |
> > |  http://www.hep.phy.cam.ac.uk/~thomson/                             |
> > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> > 
> > Content-Type: APPLICATION/PDF; NAME="geom.pdf"
> > Content-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0507251346220.21423@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Content-Description:
> > Content-Disposition: ATTACHMENT; FILENAME="geom.pdf"
> > 
> > Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:geom.pdf (PDF /CARO) (000FD3D0)
> 
> 
> 

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Dr. Mark A. Thomson                 University of Cambridge,       |
|  E-mail: thomson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   Cavendish Laboratory,          |
|  Phone:   44 1223 765122             (Room 951 Rutherford building) |
|        or 44 1223 762332 (College)   Madingley Road,                |
|  Fax:     44 1223 353920             Cambridge, CB3 0HE, U.K.       |
|  http://www.hep.phy.cam.ac.uk/~thomson/                             |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+